Why Engies are the worst prof

[Mysticknight]

Originally posted by Tsk


but you can still keep a dark red pet with no trouble at all.)

Regards,

--Tsk

and what have you been smoking?

nanomage with implants built with pet in mind and self buffs best pet i get is barely orange

[aaronb]

Originally posted by WillForce


and what have you been smoking?

nanomage with implants built with pet in mind and self buffs best pet i get is barely orange

He's talking about staying within 20%, not what you can self-cast.

And to keep things in perspective, 20% of 800 is 160. That's quite a margin and a lot more than a wrangle.

[Mysticknight]

thats all fine and dandy for someone thats only 160 away from 800
im 286 away
Im glad i didnt get used to OEing my pet.
the next patch wont affect me as much as it will everyone else that did OE.
I didnt OE my pet, implants or armor.
Ive been struggling to get by.
once this patch does hit you will be hearing alot of engineers around my level really complaining about pet pathing and how bad the pets dont hold aggro.
If you think your pet thats red dont hold agro try using one thats just barely orange.

[Elbo]

Originally posted by Megabio
[Team]Ethernal: Sorry guys, pet jumped off the cliff again and it stuck gotta remake

You get the idea.
~Chris

Oh man...

wheres my ignore button for the forums?

(hehehe)

:-P
-------

4 pages of mostly *****es about pathing and being able to selfbuff ourselves into a "decent" bot in the last 2 days.

Lets flip this around. MP: selfcast themselves around what 125-135? for a top end demon. Crats: nerfed like us in the 14.2 "patch". (Arnt patchs supposed to fix things?)

Anyone see the disparity in the above comment????

Also I agree. Just give me UVC and return the scopes in the stores for 1 day and I'll do without my bot until the end of the mission. In team missions at 150+ the groups above that can wack 3 Real Means down at 1 time without to much of a problem. Getting your bot into the mix after it gets stuck on a WALL!! is painful. For those teams who want to finish the mission instead of blitzing for the token/items/exp then the bot comes into play because it has the health to tank the boss while the rest of the mobs are cleaned up. Until that point the bot is pretty useless. I feel I should just go into the mission with the rest of the team and "solo" the mobs I run across and let the rest of the team go ahead and wack them dead at a running pace.

If the mob lasts more than 10-15 seconds in a mission at +150 then your in the wrong team.

[______________Aaleji]

I have to agree that after 140+ your bot becomes more of a nuisance than a tank. I tend to keep a shell in inventory and only spawn against add's in teams or say a Real Mean Bully pops up. Again I agree with the boss rooms in that using the bot as a tank against the boss makes the most sense. I've found I'm most useful in casting beacon warp to avoid laggy areas and the very occasional trade skill need.

[____________Intrepid]

Anyone else notice with the announcement of the expansion pack that the Kami bot was removed from the "In Progress" section??? well the whole thing was erased but i think your kami bot has been shelved.

ARGG>

[_____________Yureiko]

Originally posted by Elbo


4 pages of mostly *****es about pathing and being able to selfbuff ourselves into a "decent" bot in the last 2 days.

Lets flip this around. MP: selfcast themselves around what 125-135? for a top end demon. Crats: nerfed like us in the 14.2 "patch". (Arnt patchs supposed to fix things?)

Anyone see the disparity in the above comment????

Here's what I think, and I play one of the arguably most ignored, most developer misunderstood (meaning: they can't figure out what they want to do with this class!) class in the game: the Fixer!

Fixing glitches always, ALWAYS should come before design flaws.
Especially glitches and bugs that result from correcting design flaws.

Design flaws and incomplete professions, while ridiculous that they still exist in a game that has been on the market for nearly a year, are simply examples of the devs inability to decide where they want to go with this game.

Pet pathing, trimmer problems and other annoying bugs are the result of poor planning and implementation. The fact that pet pathing has only gotten worse since October is a sign that they aren't paying attention to the actual code changes they make when the fix this game.

Make a game that works properly THEN correct balancing issues. Or add whatever it takes to make a class the way it is intended.

I do not think any engie in this thread is saying "Fix pet pathing, fix trimmers AND give us gadgests and things."

They are complaining because, they can't play the game in its current combat oriented form because of bugs. Whatever problem a MA has with how his character compares to a soldier in PVP, or a Fixer has with not having enough theify stuff to do, or an MP or Trader selfcasting insanely because of his imbalancing nanos, or an agent upset that FP does not an agent make, is secondary to the bugs that this game has.

And that is why this thread is valid.

[___________Raineer25]

Originally posted by Raineer25
Well saddly enough i must agree the engineer profession needs ALOT of work. Trosida ran a poll here asking if why did people build an engineer and to pick one of the following :

A). TO build things
B). TO have the best pets in the game.

The reason i didn't reply to the post was I know we should have the ability to build great things, but we also should be just as viable of a fighter as all the rest of the support professions. And as of now we do not equal the effectivness of any other profession on the battlefield or off.

Sure i want to build things, but I picked an engineer because i wanted a mix of trade skills **AND ** the BEST pet cass in the game. Well as it stands, we have no trade skills and we are the worst pet calss in the game. If somone can give me a valid arguement showing me that i'm wrong and that we are the best pet class please do so.....

Currently I rolled a crat, and i'm having more fun playing Mr Crat than I ever did playing my engineer. I can say this, crats are almost equal to MP's they have alot of great nukes, the charms rock, and the calms are amazing plus great roots. ( they are just missing the ability to do the insane buffing MP's obtain) the best part is they don't entirely depend on a bot.

I have played alot of professions on AO a few past 100, I think its fair for me to voice my opinion that engineers need work. Seriously I would love to have some gadgets, and trade skills, but i have said it before and i'll say it again, i'm not holding my breath for trade skills anytime soon. We are a class that is out-damaged by all other professions (post 120). Especially after the agent/adv/fixer patches. **& 14.2 patch. ** the fixer/adv patch which will be here sometime this summer.

The fixes i want:

Make bots nano resist higer, or a trimmer to de-root.

Make us more self sufficient, doesn't mean totally independent, but just a few buffs, like the black MP shirt ( adds 20 to t/s and creation). and a few other nifty things / perhaps a nano that increases ts/creation by 30 that will stack with gen buffs

Tradeskills at some point, and gadgets

Some buffs that are actaully needed. or weapons that degrade over time. most people in the game need/want buffs, and many feel they need a trader to wrangler weapons on, or MP's for masterys/infuse/mochams. Give us a power like fixing degrading weapons? or weapons that need to be cleaned every 10-20 hours played. and only a trader or engineer can do this, or some GREAT weapon buffs, like 200-300 pt damage increase that can only be cast by the engineer.

As it is right now, if the engineer profession was deleted from funcoms data-base, we would not be missed. Or not missed by many. (( The profession not the people)) There are other professions that can do what engineers do. The kicker is they all do it better than us. Traders for trade skills, MP's and NT's for implants & buffs, soldiers have better AC shields than we do. The only thing that we have is beacon warp. And that is not a necessity in this game, its a luxury item and a time saver, thats all. We are the only support class that has nothing to **Really** (( meaning Overall this doesn't not mean 100 % usless, but about 90%)) offer the playerbase.

This is why the game should still be in beta, there are alot of unfinished/unbalanced professions, and still no trade skills / story line / or high lvl game content. its been a year since release, LOL there are only 3 years left on the storyline, and overall it really hasnt' even started yet. :P

Well the ABC fixes which is the preferred method of repair that FC chooses to use would help us engineers out alot. Increase overall bot damage, ((for all bots)) but especially the higher lvl models this would make more people comfortable about self casting rather than feeling the need to find external buffs from other professions.

** The above statment is a quick fix a few key-strokes and we are a better pet calss again.**


Fix pet pathing ( that goes for all pet classes)

work on some tradeskills and ways to make engineers more needed in this game. ( ie. Degrading weapons) reverse engineering, and the ability to buid superior armor that is NOT found in shops, make it an engineer ONLY skill.

Give us gadgets <---- this is for Trosida who is dead set on helping us engineers getting some trade skills, keep up the good work Trosida !!!

Please know this.... I don't want engineers to be uber (ie. better than soldiers or enforcers) I just want us to be what the game told me an engineer was... the best pet class and to obtain the ability to build the most sought after items in the game !!!

The game needs to be fixed. Right now, engineers are not what the introduction /profession area suggests that they are. We should be using our bots up to lvl 200, not stop using them at lvl 140 because they are usless in missions, and these lvl 200 bots should be powerful, they are considered powerful when you can first cast the slayer, but at lvl 130, I see these pets rather weak, they have great HP, but not great damage, all professions begin to advance in damage while ours stays the same from the time you cast the salyer II ( mochams BUFFED). ( lvl 105-125) That is where the engineer caps out in damage. This is the problem with the engineer profession.

Atleast a crat has nukes/calms/charms that get better and better as the game progresses, same for MP's they get nifty nanos like nano shutdown. We have nothing. Using the charms, it slike having 2-3 super bots fighting in my favor I can drop mobs faster than a brigade of MA's/soldiers. It just shows me how much work we really need

My above quote suggests trade skills & gadgets, which will help us out alot, but these gadgets need to increase bot damage ALOT, but we still will need more. I hope Funcom reads this, I think Cos is neglecting these boards and posts, I have no clue how we will get him to read this

[lockeland]

there are some extremely dumb bastards posting that imply that engineers are anything but the bottom of the barrel when it comes to all around play

[_________KrazyKanuck]

Well i don't get which point you are trying to support.

In PvP engies are absolute worst hands down.
In high level teams engies are second worst to fixers.
In solo PvM engie are the 5th best after crats MP MA and enfs.
For farming items engies are 8th best. after previous 4 and fixer and agents and NTs

You can't really dispute those facts. You average it out and engies are the second worst overall to fixers who are worst overall by a narrow margin.

If you only take into consideration soloing PvM and lower level teams then MAYBE you could consider engies a top 4 or 5 prof.

[______________Remiel]

Engineers aren't the uber class that these lvl 70 engies with qlvl 120-150 robots give the impression of. The coming 14.2 patch is really going to show that to all of those same engineers, though the damage has already been done - most other professions look at an engineer and think "uber bot, nuff said".

I anticipate the profession is going to take a nose dive in popularity after this coming patch. In the early levels, where an extremely OE'ed bot was enough to get the engineer by in the world of Rubi-Ka, both solo and in any group, the engineer is going to go belly up. At higher levels, where that OE'ed bot is within 20% or less it becomes much more appearant that the profession just doesn't offer much to the world of Rubi-Ka. I love the engineer prof, but it has so much room for improvement/finishing that it isn't even humorous.

Wrote a stereotypical long winded post to add to this thread.. but have decided to delete the remaining paragraphs. I just am too apathetic now and have no more faith remaining in Funcom to hope for any positive changes to the profession before I am old and grey. Again, the damage has already been done to our profession. Unlike the agent's upcoming ressurection, I doubt the engineer will see any significant improvement within this year. Some more wonderfully unmentioned "features" like the changes to aggression and Aggression Trimmers, perhaps.. but doubtfully anything to get worked into eager anticipation over.

I still greatly enjoy several aspects of the game and have a very good group of friends. I'll impose upon their generous nature's and let them carry my sorry hiney up to 200th. ^_- No intention of quiting and no real intention to quit playing my engineer.. though my alts are looking a bit more appealing. Makes me wonder how high I could get one before this OE patch makes it live.. hmm..

[______________Neikos]

I'm a lvl 118 engineer... and now I know, engineer is realy
the worst class in game... we can't selfcast our pet, we are
beggars, we don't have nice NF, we can't do nothing with
tradeskills... we can't play in PvP... our bots are stupid and useless...
at high level play an engineer is sooooo boringggg...

BUMP! ENGINEER IS THE WORST CLASS...

[____________Arterous]

Ok, I havn't read anything on this post so forgive me if it's been said.

Engineers are the worst profession because.... Even NT's can beat them in PvP.

[Mysticknight]

hell even a fixer can beat em in PVP

[______________Aaleji]

Holy crap what a bunch of whiners! Jesus, you'd think we can't even solo mob's or weild a weapon or do anything but sit around Tir crying in our beers. The key to the Engineer class atm is you have to use your brain to be good not just button mash against mob's to win. It seems that using LoS and hiding behind walls is wrong??? Since when??? Engineers have not and will not be a "root and shoot" class. Why can't you people find ways to make your toons better instead of whining about what we DON'T and probably NEVER WILL have. Would I like to see changes? Hell yes. Would I like to use /angry and hold my breath until the time that FC fixes it? Hell no. Someone please please please tell me why we continue to give the other professions reasons to call us whiners and complainers??? Sorry for the flaming, but you people sound like my kids when they say "I'll NEVER do better" - "Don't say NEVER - anything can happen". /rant off

[Elbo]

Originally posted by Aaleji
Holy crap what a bunch of whiners! Jesus, you'd think we can't even solo mob's or weild a weapon or do anything but sit around Tir crying in our beers. The key to the Engineer class atm is you have to use your brain to be good not just button mash against mob's to win. It seems that using LoS and hiding behind walls is wrong??? Since when??? Engineers have not and will not be a "root and shoot" class. Why can't you people find ways to make your toons better instead of whining about what we DON'T and probably NEVER WILL have. Would I like to see changes? Hell yes. Would I like to use /angry and hold my breath until the time that FC fixes it? Hell no. Someone please please please tell me why we continue to give the other professions reasons to call us whiners and complainers??? Sorry for the flaming, but you people sound like my kids when they say "I'll NEVER do better" - "Don't say NEVER - anything can happen". /rant off

Interesting. Whining about the whiners or is it ranting about the ranters?

:-) Man your way to funny. I'll join you in on the part about not holding mybreath that FC will fix pets/trade skills any time soon.

I still think docs and traders have it real good. At lvl 150 with UVC and a LLTS they can solo 180 missions (at least the doc I know can).

[Vdpmeat]

Originally posted by Elbo

I still think docs and traders have it real good. At lvl 150 with UVC and a LLTS they can solo 180 missions (at least the doc I know can).

Oddly enough I was doing that at 138 with mochams.. post implant "fix" and within OE spec.

Is that what drives everyone here... the need to play "the best" char? Best is relative... and subject to change in whatever patch comes along. I picked Engie because it interested me.

Most of what's been said here about the prof has a ring of truth to it, but I still enjoy my Engie.

Not much use in a full group... but I can solo, get all the xp and loot if I want. And yes, I have been in some high level group missions where the pet was pretty much of a waste. The way things go with FC, I dont expect grouped missions to be this way forever tho.

Useless in pvp... not in my job description, I want pvp I'll go back to Rocket Arena (or twink the bejeebus out of my Trader)

Pet pathing... bad, but it can be handled with some effort. People seem to forget the time when anything bigger than an android wouldn't even fit through doors in missions, pets had 10ncu max, no aggro trimmers and the pathing was actually worse than it is now.

Useless nanos... every prof has their share.

Anyway... my point is that I dont think that Engies are the worst prof... it's just that most of the other profs suck a little less.
(which makes about as much sense as the topic of this thread)

[___________Raineer25]

Aaleji, my friend you know I agree with you on many aspects of the game, but how else will we let funcom know that we need a fix, unless we make it clear to them.. and spell it out for them.

Yes engineers are still playable.. like all professions.. they are all playable.. but its obvious that we need some changes made to us.

The reason i'm so persistant on these boards is.. i feel ripped off... when i first started my engineer i thought they were alot of fun, and i spent ALOT of time lvling and developing this character.. the sad thing is i find out at lvl 130 that we are not very effective in the game. I said in my last post, " If engineers were deleted from funcoms data base.. we would not be missed by the player base. We are a support class that has nothing to support the player base with."

Overall, we are inadequate in combat when looking at other professions, we have few / no useful trade skills, beacon warp is not a necessity in the game, and soldiers have better AC shields than we do. ( This doesn't mean we can't deal damage, but the truth is dealing damage is the only way to lvl in this game), and overall we can't deal as much damage as a doc, trader, fixers, MP,s MA's crats, etc...using a self casted bot, or even with a slayerII we are out damaged by lvl 130, i can't max out trade skills and have a uber weapon on at the same time, especially after 14.2 when OE comes to a hault. ( meaning wranlgers will be less effective if i don't meet the 20%) The bot is our only true weapon if we are to have good trade skills.

I see no other way to get it though to funcom that we need some work.

It is very hard to be effective on these boards because of this.. The engineer between lvl 1-120 is a pretty good class, its easy to get masteries buffs which allow us to over equip a bot that works well, but after level 120 ++ perhaps 130 we really begin to see how ineffective, ( Even with a slayerII) we are compared to the all other professions. SO... you get all the engineers under lvl 120 saying ((hey we are a great profession)) and then you get all the lvl 130 ++ people saying ( We are an inadequate profession). This is why I think many people have resorted to trashing the engineer profession so we can somehow get Funcoms attention.

I really believe that FC has no idea how the high lvl game is for an engineer.

I agree with you on this.. Yes, engineers can still be ( somewhat) effective after 130, but I don't think anyone reading this can say that we can dish out as much damage or be anywhere near as effective as any other support class. I do believe we are at the bottom of the list when looking at all other professions.

** effective meaning being able to offer anyone/team anything truly useful other than a beacon warp or a minor AC buff. Overall we dish out apprx 35%-55% of what other professions can accomplish in damage %'s.

Well anyway, like i said, you and i share a lot of points. And people should type something constructive other than , ( we suck). But I have been guilty of saying the ( we suck), statement many times because of my built up frustration that I have when it comes to the engineer profession, and how much time I have sank into it, only to find out that we are one of the weakest links to a team.

( If they fix pet pathing that would help us alot). But i still think we need a litte more than that.

For me personally I started a new profession, that is challanging and requires some thinking and fast responce times, but is really fun, the crat. I won't give up on my engineer, but he will be in voluntary retirement until funcom give engineers a little love.

But guys.. Aaleji has a point, be more constructive about why engineers are not as proficient as you would like them to be, generalizations like, ( we suck), really aren't creative, and I'm sure FC just passes by those posts without even reading them.

And we can play past lvl 120, it just gets a little discouraging when i'm always the person dishing out the least damage in a team ( using a slayer II) even with a QL 120 weapons (chem mausser) bad choice for me i know... I'll be switching to a cookie cutter engineer using a shotgun as soon as i get my IPR points.

[______________Aaleji]

Rain -

You're right again, perhaps I was a bit too harsh, considering the OE will not effect me as hard as many other Engi's and the fact that many of the points mentioned in this thread ARE valid to some extent. Admittedly I too was one of those who said "I quit" when 14.2 was announced so I suppose "people in glass houses ... " should be said.
What we need, Engineers, is a voice, a single voice to get our gripes, groans, rants and raves to Cosmik and the rest of the moron patrol at FunCom. Ouzzelle where are you??????? pfft Adventurers suck
The 130+ barrier IS most assuredly a problem for teaming. I would be lying if I said we were the most desirable class for the high level teams. I still say we have the most desirable "tank" in the game and there are few teams that don't enjoy having the aggro on a member that if it dies doesn't really matter ... No one ever said to me ... "Damn dude your bot died, sorry" I feel the death of my bot saved the team from death ... so be it.
I apologize for flaming the entire post like that - There are valid points in there that DO need to brought up to FC ... I'm getting frustrated with every third Engi post being "we suck". Play your toon smart at lower levels and you'll learn how at high levels to run missions smoothly even with the crappy pet pathing. While the major fun of our class is level 100-135 - there are still reasons to continue playing an Engi after 135.

[__________Archimedes]

The Original Electronicum v3
Damage 1-390 (345)
Speed 2.3 s/1.4s
Requirements pistol 1017

Concerning that most classes have there damage toned down by the critical nerfs, this weapon is very competitive.

And the +150 engi pistol buff comes in handy here.

Maybe some engi should start DOING something in the fight instead of just waiting 2 rooms away.
If you say: "I cant do it, I dont have the IP nor the life"
Well then you better improve there are others that allready can do it.